Semafor exec Ben Smith dishes on Insider, media unions, and whether Nich Carlson is really his ‘pal’

Eóin Noonan/Collision via Sportsfile; Jack Newsham/Business Outsider

• Ben Smith ran BuzzFeed News, covered media for The New York Times, and launched Semafor.

• In three very short interviews, he talked about his new book, “Traffic,” and Insider’s history.

• He did not respond to a follow-up text inquiring about his favorite picket-line chant.

Ben Smith, a former editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed News and a former media columnist at The New York Times, has gone from a media-industry chronicler to an operator, cofounding Semafor, a global-news website, in 2022. He spoke to Business Outsider about his new book, “Traffic,” which tells the story of the rapid ascent and struggles of BuzzFeed News, Gawker, and the broader digital-media industry. It’s available to purchase on Bookshop.org and to be checked out from the New York Public Library.

He initially declined to be interviewed, citing his status as “management,” and protested that he was “drowning” in work, but fielded three quick calls with Business Outsider on Thursday. His responses have been condensed and edited.

Business Outsider: Hey Ben, it’s Jack Newsham, the reporter from Insider who reached out about interviewing for this strike publication. How are you?

Ben Smith: I appreciate your diligence. I’m driving.

OK. You’re good to talk?

Yes.

Have you been following along with our strike? We’ve been striking for about a week now. It started with us filing a complaint with the NLRB over Insider changing our healthcare illegally, and we hope to settle that in conjunction with our disagreements over healthcare costs and guaranteed wage increases.

I’m so sorry, I have to take the other line. I’ll call you back.

Disconnect

First, let me confront a niggling fear. In a LinkedIn post plugging your book, Nich Carlson, our editor-in-chief, called you “my pal.” Are you pals?

Are we pals? I know Nich reasonably well. But I don’t know. Ah, shit. I’m not avoiding you, but I do have to take this call. I will call you back.

Disconnect

Smith called back and scolded Outsider’s reporter for asking whether Carlson was “his pal” before the interview continued.

OK. Now let me get to the big question: the business of Insider. Why wasn’t this company a bigger part of your book?

Vice also wasn't such a big part of the book, and it really was because you sort of have to choose the characters you tell a story through. Jonah [Peretti] and Nick [Denton], unlike Henry [Blodget], were very ideological about what the future was going to be like, and less pragmatic.

What do you mean when you say that Henry is less ideological?

I think Henry was much more focused on building a business.

In December, Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner told Insider workers that our company was “surprisingly profitable.” That’s a contrast with Vice and BuzzFeed. Why is that?

I haven’t seen those numbers, and I don’t understand Insider’s business well enough to have an opinion. One of the big investors in one of those companies called me after the book to tell me that he thought it could’ve been a shorter book that would’ve said: “These people should’ve sold their companies when they could,” and that was the whole book. Obviously, Henry did that. In retrospect, a lot of people thought it was the right decision. It’s been reported, the subscription business is pretty tough. I just genuinely haven’t reported out the current business at Insider, so I don’t have sophisticated thoughts about it. 

One thing that was part of your book was unions. You described being sort of neutral on unionization, encouraging Jonah to recognize BuzzFeed workers. A few people who used to work at BuzzFeed told me they remember it differently. But please unpack for me. Why did you take the approach you did?

Whatever I wrote in the book is what I remember, and I remembered it more vividly when I wrote the book.

I realize you were there for less than a year after BuzzFeed unionized. But to the best of your recollection, how did having a union change things?

It’s just a different form of industrial organization. I don't have a problem with that, per se, but obviously, it makes those relations adversarial, but not in a toxic, negative way, necessarily. But I actually have a lot of respect for Rachel Sanders, who is one of the big organizers [at Buzzfeed], and spent a lot of time talking to her.

What would you do if Semafor workers sought union recognition?

Um, that’s a really good question, and I’d think about it really hard before I said anything, so not going to shoot from the cuff on that.

OK. That was hypothetical, but this next question isn’t hypothetical. Say you’re the editor-in-chief of Insider and your union has threatened to strike. Would that be a good time to go to a media conference in Jackson Hole?

I’m not — I think I’ll let you make up your own mind about taking shots at your boss.

What advice would you give Insider’s management? And what advice would you give us workers?

That’s a really good question. And I’m pausing because I’m about to get in an elevator and drop off, but I’d like to give you a thoughtful answer to that. I mean, I guess this is a very, very difficult business and you have a fundamentally shared interest in its success, which I guess people on both sides know.

Yeah. Anything more?

That’s all I got. So where are you publishing this? I didn’t click the link. It’s some kind of strike publication?

Yes, it’s called Business Outsider. Two more questions. This is going to be fun, I swear.

I’m genuinely walking into an elevator right now.

Disconnect

Smith didn’t respond to a follow-up question via text about his favorite picket-line chant.

Business Outsider is a strike publication of Insider Union, which is a unit of The NewsGuild of New York.
Follow our Twitter for updates on the strike, and if you enjoyed this content and would like to throw in some cash for our members who are losing wages every day that we strike for a fair contract, feel free to visit our hardship fundraiser here. Want to help us tell the boss to reach a deal? Let Nich Carlson and Henry Blodget know you support us by sending a letter.